MyEclipse for Spring version 8.6 M2

[RobertGloverJr]

I have spent the past two hours watching two Webinars about MyEclipse for Spring:

1. http://bit.ly/de3DA7

1. http://bit.ly/ceng8t

Based on viewing these two webinars, I conclude that the quality of MyEclipse for Spring and its meticulous attention to detail is breathtaking. My impression so far is that MyEclipse for Spring runs circles, dances, and does somersaults in a head to head comparison against STS and Roo.
A search for "MyEclipse for Spring" in the Spring Forums indicates it is completely off the radar, like a stealth bomber approaching so quickly and so silently that no one notices its approach.


Instead of spending this weekend studying further the Spring samples (all of which I have checked out from Subversion and successfully gotten to run in STS), I am instead going to download MyEclipse for Spring version 8.6 M2 and follow the "MyEclipse for Spring" tutorials at this link: http://www.myeclipseide.com/module-h...lay-pid-7.html

(Update1). I just discovered this link to MyEclipseForSpring's YouTube channel, currently containing 22 videos about MyEclipse for Spring: http://www.youtube.com/user/myeclipseforspring

(Update2). I have spent the last 5 hours battling various problems in MyEclipse for Spring and learning a great deal in the process. I have no doubt that when I return to STS and Roo, the knowledge gained from working with MyEclipse for Spring will transfer nicely. It's ironic that STS originally was going to cost $3,500 per developer but then the price was reduced to free. By contrast, MyEclipse for Spring is a reasonable $199 with a free 30 day trial. Maybe STS should be priced at $99 and in return for getting some green, STS could be better maintained and cared for, the way MyEclipse for Spring is.

(Update3). After a full 9 hour Saturday of working with MyEclipse for Spring (using Snow Leopard), I have it configured and working properly. The proof of that is that the I generated a GWT application backed by a Derby database, and it works perfectly. These are the advantages I see in MyEclipse for Spring:

1) With the click of checkbox, a Spring application can be generated as either Spring 2.5 or Spring 3.0


2) With the click of a checkbox, a Spring application can be generated to either use Maven, or not use Maven.

3) With the click of a checkbock, a non-Maven Spring app can be generated to contain all the jar files in the "lib" directory, or else access the jar files from a shared location. MyEclipse for Spring puts all the jar files in the specified location automatically.

4) MyEclipse for Spring has 2-way UML tooling. Can generate UML from java classes, and/or can generate java classes from UML.

5) MyEclipse for Spring can generate Spring Flex apps, Spring GWT apps, Spring WebFlow apps, and Spring Web MVC apps. Amazingly, it can generate all 4 at the same time, or any combination of the 4.

6) The java code and configuration files generated by MyEclipse for Spring adhere to "best practices". They look as if they were hand written by an expert Spring programmer.

7) When you listen to the MyEclipse for Spring webcasts and video, it is evident they really care about the developer and have a lot of empathy with the needs of developers. They seem to really understand how difficult it is for developers new to Spring to catch on, and they specifically designed MyEclipse for Spring to be easy to use as a vehicle to learn Spring best practices.

[davemeurer]

I wanted to respond and thank you tremendously for taking a look at MyEclipse for Spring and posting your thoughts! Your comment about how much we care about the developer really hits home as we have been trying very hard to reach out to our users and incorporate their feedback as much as possible.

I would also like to contribute a couple of thoughts:
1. Related to gathering feedback, it would be great to understand the various problems you encounterd in your first 5 hours. We are very interested in improving the experience and usability of MyEclipse for Spring. Our target is to get folks started in minutes, and so anything we can do to improve to reach that target would be great.

2. Did you happen to use the new Code Assistants available in 8.6? Any thoughts on that new feature would be great! We think these Code Assistants will help novice users understand Annotations better and will help accelarate development for experienced developers. A Spring Annotator Code Assistant video tutorial can be found at our youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/myeclipsefors.../8/WV1Dz3ChqY4 Documented tutorials can be found in the Eclipse Help Contents.

3. We are also thinking about offerring some or all MyEclipse for Spring features in STS. We've created this poll to gather the spring community's thoughts on the subject. http://bit.ly/9oXnXq

Thanks again for your thoughts!
Dave Meurer

[RobertGloverJr]

I only have time to look at MyEclipse for Spring on Saturdays, so this being the second Saturday, I have completed my second look at MyEclipse for Spring.

This was not a terribly good day for me in the vast world of MyEclipse for Spring. I spent about five hours going through MyEclipse for Spring tutorials, and it seemed the more I learned the more confused I became. There are many new concepts concerning "generated" folders and "Spring DSL's", and somewhat disconcerting references to "programmers who prefer to develop in a code-based manner as opposed to programmers who prefer to use a higher abstraction level". I'm not even sure what concepts of MyEclipse for Spring are specific to that product, versus which features also apply to plain "MyEclipse" and "MyEclipse Big Blue".

As I delved deeper into MyEclipse for Spring, the thought occurred to me that Roo seems to be doing the same thing as the MyEclipse for Spring DSLs and generators, but in a simpler, more straight-forward way that does not require the use of a GUI.

I really don't know what to make of MyEclipse for Spring, based on my second Saturday working with it. I don't know if there will be time to look at MyEclipse for Spring again next Saturday because I'm taking a group tour that day on a kayak, of the wildlife of the Meadowlands, New Jersey marsh swamps.

As an aside, I'm having a great deal of fun learning to program iPads and iPhones using XCode, Interface Builder, and the wonderful instructional courses available for free in the iUniversity section of iTunes. This morning I finally got a simple iPad application I wrote to run on my physical iPad, not just in the simulator.

It's ironic that annotation-based java programming of frameworks has become so mind-numbingly complicated that Objective C and Cocoa seem by comparison very simple, unambiguous, and a great deal more fun to learn.

I'm thinking that maybe instead of learning more MyEclipse for Spring it may be a better use of my time to read more of that 900 page (and growing) Spring 3.x reference manual.

--Update 1. Maybe there was just to much new information absorbed during my second day of MyEclipse for Spring self-study to be able to see the forest amidst all the trees. Now that a couple of days have passed, I see looking back that MyEclipse for Spring's built in support for "code completion" of Spring annotations (it's much better than that, but calling it "code completion" gives the general sense), is incredibly useful, while at the same time incredibly frustrating because it makes one realize how many thousands of different combinations of Spring annotations there are to choose from. The MyEclipse for Spring "scaffolding" is incredibly useful too because it generates a complete mvc web application or Spring Web Flow App or Flex App (or iPhone app or GWT app). However, I think maybe the best thing to do with the generated program may be to manually copy the generated java files, xml, etc., into a plain plain, non-MyEclipse instance of Eclipse and customize it manually going forward.
I will get up early next Saturday before the Kayak tour and work more on MyEclipse for Spring. I want to make a point in the 3rd session of examing MyEclipse for Spring projects that use maven.

--Update 2. During the 2 days since "Update 1", I uploaded the MyEclipse for Spring reference manual onto my iPod and read it using the iBooks 1.2 pdf reader. It renders beautifully on the iPad. Then today I got up early before work and created a new workspace and within it created a brand new MyEclipse for Spring MVC Crud application, but this time telling the wizard to place the java source into the "src" directory instead of into the "generated directory". Within about two minutes I had a fully functional, working Spring MVC application that uses two database tables. The project is beautiful, far better than I could write by hand. If the only thing MyEclipse could do is to generate CRUD this quickly, the $199 price would be a huge bargain. The things I wish to learn more from this experience are first, how I could have changed the CRUD wizard to generate a maven project, and two, how to go about changing the database used in the CRUD generated to another datasource (the panel to do so is there, but I would like to actually try using it instead of taking the default of Derby).

[davemeurer]

Appreciate the updates, Robert! We are glad you are finding value in MyEclipse for Spring.

Regarding your questions:

how I could have changed the CRUD wizard to generate a maven project

A: In MyEclipse, the standard way to create a Maven project is via the checkbox in the Web Project creation wizard. MyEclipse has a tutorial on Creating a Maven Project using Maven4MyEclipse

There are other ways to create a maven project as well. For example, you can create a standard Java Maven project and do a couple configurations to set it up for the web. A good forum thread on this subject and how to configure can be found at the last post in this thread: Maven + Hibernate + Spring MVC

how to go about changing the database used in the CRUD generated to another datasource

A: Take a look at the myeclipseide.com Educational Materials Databases section, where you'll see a handful of tutorials on using other databases. Once a database connection is added, it will be there in the Scaffolding wizard. This isn't the primary reason for this video, but you'll notice in the MyEclipse for Spring "Re-scaffolding" overview video, the DB Browser contains several connections, and you see those in the scaffolding wizard.

HTH!
Dave

[RobertGloverJr]

I got up a little early before work, read the Spring 3.x reference PDF for 45 minutes, and then spent 45 minutes working on MyEclipse for Spring using the advice in your post. My results were all positive.

Following your advice, I watched the video on maven usage in MyEclipse. I then recreated from scratch the exact same Spring MVC CRUD web app that I had created yesterday, but today I enabled it for maven using that checkbox you told me about. It worked perfectly and created a maven project, and after I did a "run as Maven Package" (which worked), I did "Run as My Eclipse Server Application" and the web app worked perfectly.

Again following your advice, I next watched the video about how to re-scaffold a MyEclipse for Spring application. I was very impressed with the work that has been done on re-scaffolding and with the intention expressed in the video to continue to improve Spring re-scafolding.

Finally, I went to the link you provided and found 10 tutorials on how to use database in MyEclipse, including:

1. MyEclipse Oracle Database Overview
   A detailed overview of the capabilities of Oracle Database support inside MyEclipse
2. Microsoft SQL Server & Sybase Feature Overview
   A detailed overview of Microsoft SQL (MSSQL) and Sybase database support in MyEclipse.
3. MyEclipse MySQL 5 Feature Overview
   A detailed overview of MySQL 5 support in MyEclipse.
4. Using the Database Explorer in MyEclipse
   A detailed introduction to the Database Explorer in MyEclipse.

Suffice it say, I am very impressed.

Having said that, I noted that the pom.xml created by the Spring CRUD scaffolding seemed to contain some dependencies that, arguably, were not really needed. Perhaps they were "just in case" dependencies that would have been used if I had selected scaffolding options which I elected not to select?

Another thing I noted is that all of the MyEclipse for Spring tutorials are very new and up to date, which is great. However, the database tutorials seem to have been created a while ago (long before MyEclipse for Spring came upon the scene) and might benefit from being updated and maybe even "forking" some of them to specifically address MyEclipse for Spring database users. For example, the "Introduction to the Database Explorer and Hibernate in MyEclipse
by Don Fair" tutorial (which uses an innovative "semi-video" display system to render the tutorial) was based on Hibernate 2.2 and used a very non-Spring way of configuring hibernate.

In closing (and rushing off to my day job), I would at this point recommend MyEclipse for Spring to anyone who asked me. But I still have a lot to learn about it. And lock-step with that, I need to spend more time reading the Spring 3.x reference documentation on my iPad.

(Update 1, two days later) -- I just watched 3 YouTube Videos on the subject of MyEclipse support for Spring Web Flow and recommend all 3 highly:

1. Spring Tutorial - Using Spring Web Flow (Part 1 of 2)
2. Spring Tutorial - Using Spring Web Flow (Part 2 of 2)
3. Spring Tutorial - Diving into Spring Web Flow scaffolding

I think it is a very powerful testimonial for the benefits of MyEclipse for Spring to first watch the three videos above and *then* compare and contrast them to what you learn from watching the following video about Spring Web Flow created by Keith Donald of SpringSource/VMware:

Keith Donald's Spring Web Flow JavaOne 2007 Demo

I think it is fair to say that 999 people out of a thousand would prefer to create their Spring Web Flow apps using the documentation and the tools shown in the first three videos above (which use MyEclipse for Spring), as compared to the tools and documentation shown in 4th link above.

(Update 2 )
In a similar vein, watch the 3 videos immediately below from MyEclipse for Spring about Spring MVC, UML, and Spring annotations. Then compare to the 4th and last video below.
Spring Tutorial - Generating a Spring MVC application from UML
Spring Tutorial - Scaffolding a Spring MVC application from a Database Schema
Spring Tutorial - Code Assistance for Spring framework stereotypes

The video immediately below is entitled, "MVC showcase" by Keith Donald of SpringSource/Vmware. Which videos and methodogy (the 3 above from MyEclipse for Spring, or the 1 below) seems like a better route and a better tool set for learning and using Spring?
http://s3.springsource.org/MVC/mvc-showcase-screencast.mov

In all fairness, I should mention that the video immediately above accompanies the following pdf: https://src.springframework.org/svn/...SpringMVC3.pdf . I spent a full hour reading this pdf very carefully while watching the video and freezing each video frame to compare to the pdf. In all honestly, the experience left me wondering if Spring is losing touch with their original roots as a simple, easy to understand alternative to the complexity of EJB.

(Disclaimer: Have not done a direct comparison of Roo and STS versus MyEclipse for Spring yet. Will do so and report back. To be continued.... )

[RobertGloverJr]

I just spent three hours on a Saturday morning watching MyEclipse for Spring YouTube videos and after that using the MyEclipse for Spring IDE.
Here are my observations on this, my third Saturday in a row learning about MyEclipse for Spring

1. The xml, java code, and property files generated by the MyEclipse for Spring scaffolding wizards is an excellent way to learn the best Spring coding practices
2. It was very educational to create two projects that were exactly the same in all respects except that one project used the MyEclipse for Spring "Spring Web Flow" wizard, and the other project used the MyEclipse for Spring "Spring MVC" wizard. Comparing and contrasting the two projects was every helpful towards learning Spring best practices.
3. MyEclipse for Spring automatically generates a JUnit java program, for each DAO, Controller, and Service that ME4S wizards generate. These JUnit java files use Spring best practices and are very helpful to study.
4. There is a MyEclipse DB explorer that is very useful to have open within the IDE.
5. It is very instructional to study the usage of SiteMesh in the projects generated by the ME4S scaffolding wizards
6. I find it helps to watch the ME4S YouTube videos repeatedly. They are usually five minutes long, and repeated viewings reveal things not observed in the first viewing.
7. The more I use the ME4S IDE, the more I like it. There are small details that show their concern with detail. For example, property files have a "property file" perspective that makes it easy to view, edit, add and delete properties.

I know that to be complete in my evaluation of ME4S I will need to use STS in order to compare the two. My recollection from past usage of STS is that it is very slow because of the AOP things going on in the background, and a lot of the features in STS don't work. It is such a pleasure to instead use MyEclipse for Spring, which so far has worked flawlessly and been nearly one hundred percent perfect in everything I have tried to do with it.

I watched a MyEclipse for Spring YouTube video this morning about the ME4S iPhone CRUD generator. I am going to write a quick little iPad application in Objective C (using XCode, not ME4S), deploy it to my personal iPad (via USB cable plugged into my Mac), and see how an iPhone web app generated by MyEclipse for Spring looks when viewed from within a real physical iPad.
To be continued....

[RobertGloverJr]

...snip...
The video immediately below is entitled, "MVC showcase" by Keith Donald of SpringSource/Vmware. Which videos and methodogy (the 3 above from MyEclipse for Spring, or the 1 below) seems like a better route and a better tool set for learning and using Spring?
http://s3.springsource.org/MVC/mvc-showcase-screencast.mov

...snip... )

I hope Keith Donald's feelings are not impacted by my having said, in effect, that Keith Donald's video is completely dwarfed and eclipsed by the far, far higher quality of the videos created by the MyEclipse for Spring team.

Let me put this another way by using myself as an example. Earlier this evening I created two YouTube videos which you can watch at the two links shown below. In my opinion, my two videos (whose links I show below) provide Keith Donald with a pattern to base his own future videos upon. I mean this sincerely and with good intentions, because I really think Keith Donald is going down the wrong path in the way he is creating videos about Spring. Smashing Pumpkins have no place in videos about the very serious and very important business of developing enterprise class applications intended for use in corporations.

Here are the links to my own two videos:

Mylyn Usage in MyEclipse for Spring (part 1 of 2)

Mylyn Usage in MyEclipse for Spring (part 2 of 2)

[at7000ft]

Mylyn Usage in MyEclipse for Spring (part 1 of 2)

Mylyn Usage in MyEclipse for Spring (part 2 of 2)

Great first videos Robert. I have been using Spring for 4 years and have recently been looking at STS/Grails and MyEclipse4Spring. I totally agree with you on the way Spring is going, xml hell to annotation hell. It gets so complex (and mind-numbing boring) that a high level scaffolding generation tool kind of becomes essential. Now I just have to decide which way to continue, ME4S, STS, Grails, and/or Roo.

And by the way, didn't you write a book or something?

rick

[RobertGloverJr]

... snip... xml hell to annotation hell. It gets so complex (and mind-numbing boring) that a high level scaffolding generation tool kind of becomes essential. ...snip...
rick

I keep meaning to re-visit Roo and STS, but MyEclipse for Spring is so much fun and their tutorials are so interesting and polished, that once again I found myself today using all my weekend Spring-study time immersed in MyEclipse for Spring, to the exclusion of Roo and STS.

I graduated this morning from watching the excellent MyEclipse for Spring video tutorials about Web Services:

Spring Tutorial - Contract-first Development of a Web Service
Spring Tutorial - Adding JAX-WS support to Spring Services

To reading and carefully doing the exercises explained in the MyEclipse for Spring "textual" tutorials about Web Services:

How to use the JAX-WS Annotators for publishing a Spring service as a SOAP web service
Scaffold a Spring Service from a WSDL (Contract-First Development)
Import a web service and use within application

A huge discovery for me within the "Scaffold a Spring Service from a WSDL (Contract-First Development)" tutorial was a link to the Apache CFX web site. At Why CXF it states,

"Spring is a first class citizen with CXF. CXF supports the Spring 2.0 XML syntax, making it trivial to declare endpoints which are backed by Spring and inject clients into your application."

That CFX web site is on my radar for a closer look.

It seems odd to me that few people seem to have noticed that VMware paid $340 million to purchase SpringSource. One would think that with that kind of money being thrown around, Spring would invest more in improving the Spring 3.x reference manual. I have it on my iPad and spend time every week pouring through it. Bravely, I am reading this front to back. That chapter on Resources (chapter 4) makes me want to jump off a bridge, it is so confused. First they print verbatim the "Resources" material from Spring 2.x. Then with a one sentence transition they completely contradict everything they just said about resources and explain a hugely complicated replacement for legacy Resources. Then with another one sentence transition they contradict themselves a third time and introduce yet another Resource replacement. The only thing I was able to take away from reading chapter 4 is that apparently nobody at Spring is actually reading their own reference manual anymore.

...snip...
And by the way, didn't you write a book or something?
...snip...
rick

Modesty prevents me from commenting. I will say though that my next video tutorial (planned to be on the topic of Web Services in MyEclipse for Spring) will contain a few breadcrumbs about that.

Update: My new YouTube video is finished. You can watch it on YouTube at:

Web Services in MyEclipse for Spring

[RobertGloverJr]

My 4th YouTube video on the subject of MyEclipse for Spring is uploaded and available for viewing at the following link:

MyEclipse for Spring iPhone scaffolding

Incidentally, here is a link to a feature by feature comparison of Roo to MyEclipse for Spring:

How does MyEclipse for Spring compare to Spring Roo