someone please tell me why springsource.org is using php?

[springmvcsucks]

Why is springsource.org using php and not exclusively using spring framework/java? PHP is supposed to be a competitor to the Java language and any framework built on top of Java is a competitor by extension. Is PHP being used because there's no robust CMS for java and spring framework? PHPBB isn't in java? Or wait, the elephant in the room: Spring MVC sucks and is useless?

[depy]

I was wondering the same thing a long time ago...

[-FoX-]

There are excellent Java forum software available though, like JForum? I think SpringSource should eat their own dogfood...

[Steve O]

If you don't like Spring... don't use it. A few years ago, someone asked a similar question. One of the creators of Spring (Rod?) had a good answer - with all the available forum softwares available, why not use one of those and focus the energy on expanding, improving and moving the Spring Framework forward.

If Spring MVC sucks and is useless, maybe the underlying reasons for such a strong opinion should be addressed.

For example:

Java is too difficult to use. That is simple, go and write PHP code that is not secure and difficult to maintain or stick with static HTML.

Spring is too difficult. That is simple, read some documentation, get a book - or better yet, thoughtfully write a project using Spring. Better yet - use this forum as a tool to expand your knowledge and learn concepts instead of wasting time berating a framework with proven success and a strong following.

It appears there is some level of frustration for you with the Spring Framework (MVC only?). Why not ask for some real help learning the Framework or move on?

Naturally, another option is to write your own framework as a competing option for Java development - you know, one that doesn't suck.

Steve O

[springmvcsucks]

Your post hardly addresses the question:
Why is this site using PHP, the #1 competitor (forget rails hype) to spring MVC? Your post is just an ad hominem attack and you say that I should go write "insecure PHP code". So spring source is using php code. Is it insecure then? It appears there is some frustration with spring mvc? Of course. It fails. It has bugs. There's frustration with with many people trying to use bad products. People need to stop being evangalists for bad products. Ask for help? yea. Help like "go read the docs that don't explain how to use it and don't explain that there are critical failures with certain web containers like Glassfish and Jboss" Steve O, your post fails to convince me of the usefulness of Spring MVC and only cements my view with your ad hominems and unsound arguments.

If you don't like Spring... don't use it. A few years ago, someone asked a similar question. One of the creators of Spring (Rod?) had a good answer - with all the available forum softwares available, why not use one of those and focus the energy on expanding, improving and moving the Spring Framework forward.

If Spring MVC sucks and is useless, maybe the underlying reasons for such a strong opinion should be addressed.

For example:

Java is too difficult to use. That is simple, go and write PHP code that is not secure and difficult to maintain or stick with static HTML.

Spring is too difficult. That is simple, read some documentation, get a book - or better yet, thoughtfully write a project using Spring. Better yet - use this forum as a tool to expand your knowledge and learn concepts instead of wasting time berating a framework with proven success and a strong following.

It appears there is some level of frustration for you with the Spring Framework (MVC only?). Why not ask for some real help learning the Framework or move on?

Naturally, another option is to write your own framework as a competing option for Java development - you know, one that doesn't suck.

Steve O

[adam.fitzgerald]

The software that runs these forums was chosen a long time ago (4+ years) and was selected basically for its ease of use for Spring users and for its low amount of administrative overhead. As others have pointed out and as Rod has mentioned before, I am certain that members of the Spring community would rather have the SpringSource engineers creating new code, writing documentation for Spring projects and building examples that demonstrate best practices than redesigning and implementing some sort of forum software.

On occasion I evaluate other forum software to determine if it will provide superior value to the community - so far none have merited the cost and inconvenience in switching. In the vein of constructive suggestions to the community, if you have another superior forum system to recommend by all means start a discussion thread to mention it. The existing products in the forum space are by no means a commentary on the usefulness of the underlying technology whether that be Spring MVC or PHP.

As for the user springmvcsucks, you have already had posts deleted for profanity, abusive language, and off topic discussion. While well-informed dissent and alternative points of view are welcome in this forum, your brand of FUD is inappropriate and does nothing to help the greater community of Spring users. Another such transgression and I will be forced to ban you permanently from the forums.

Adam FitzGerald
SpringSource

[springmvcsucks]

The point of this thread is:

Why in the world would I use Spring MVC to build a website if Drupal and PHPBB are so much better for building a website than Spring MVC is?

1. If the creators of Spring MVC think it's so good and want me to pay money for some training, why do they have a "do what I say, not what I do?" kind of attitude and go use PHPBB/Drupal instead?

2. They even bought out the Grails project, a very very similar name to some other hyped up language and framework. They are even copying their broken record "DRY convention over configuration" etc etc marketing slogans.

The Spring corporation says: "Do not use Spring MVC for web development. We don't even use it for a majority of our development and in addition we are spending massive amounts of money buying other web technologies," but their public relations and marketing tell us: "Spring MVC is best thing since sliced bread for web development." It doesn't make sense.

The software that runs these forums was chosen a long time ago (4+ years) and was selected basically for its ease of use for Spring users and for its low amount of administrative overhead. As others have pointed out and as Rod has mentioned before, I am certain that members of the Spring community would rather have the SpringSource engineers creating new code, writing documentation for Spring projects and building examples that demonstrate best practices than redesigning and implementing some sort of forum software.

On occasion I evaluate other forum software to determine if it will provide superior value to the community - so far none have merited the cost and inconvenience in switching. In the vein of constructive suggestions to the community, if you have another superior forum system to recommend by all means start a discussion thread to mention it. The existing products in the forum space are by no means a commentary on the usefulness of the underlying technology whether that be Spring MVC or PHP.

As for the user springmvcsucks, you have already had posts deleted for profanity, abusive language, and off topic discussion. While well-informed dissent and alternative points of view are welcome in this forum, your brand of FUD is inappropriate and does nothing to help the greater community of Spring users. Another such transgression and I will be forced to ban you permanently from the forums.

Adam FitzGerald
SpringSource

[Some_One]

Why in the world would I use Spring MVC to build a website if Drupal and PHPBB are so much better for building a website than Spring MVC is?

Different tools for different tasks. I highly doubt most avid Spring users are building trivial websites. The usefulness of Spring and SpringMVC, in my opinion shines when you work on enterprise applications and can take advantage of all that Spring has to offer. The likelihood of a Spring developer just using SpringMVC is small; they most probably make use of some of the other very useful modules like IoC, data access, transaction management, etc.

If all you need is an MVC framework and it proves to be cumbersome for what you want to do, don't use it. Its that simple. Spring never claimed to be the "be all and end all" of frameworks. But for those people who have lots of experience in JEE and have been working long before Spring came around, then I'm sure they can easily see the benefits. I have only been using Spring for a short time, but I can see its benefits in the apps that I've worked on and continue to work on.

[adam.fitzgerald]

1. If the creators of Spring MVC think it's so good and want me to pay money for some training, why do they have a "do what I say, not what I do?" kind of attitude and go use PHPBB/Drupal instead?

The reasons for using this forum software have already been outlined in my earlier post in this thread. Spring is used in a substantial number of other places on SpringSource web properties (Enterprise Bundle Repository, Grails.org, JIRA, Fisheye and many other Atlassian products). Just to remind you, Spring MVC is open source and free - if you don't like it, don't use. No-one from SpringSource is forcing you to use it or pay for it or sign up for training.

2. They even bought out the Grails project, a very very similar name to some other hyped up language and framework. They are even copying their broken record "DRY convention over configuration" etc etc marketing slogans.

Grails provides some great tools for rapidly creating web applications. The best part is that the generated framework uses Spring underneath so that you get all the benefits of a proven, scalable enterprise technology. It is also open source and free - if you don't like it, don't use.

Adam FitzGerald
SpringSource